likesthecoat | [internet cafe] fy calon i yn anafen

[Private to Ianto]

Hey, I know this is one of those things people say when they don't know what else to say (kind of like "be safe" :)), but I kind of know where you're coming from. And we all have good days and bad days when we're dealing with this shit.

I saw a woman a couple weeks ago who reminded me of someone I'll never see again. It hurts, man. It fucks you up, and that's actually a good thing. It means you're still human, and that's (mostly) a good thing to be. Just take it as it comes. Deal with things in your own time. Okay, now I'm spouting psycho-babble, and that means it's time to stop.

Seriously though, you're a braver man than I am. It takes a lot of courage to be open about it.

[Private to Lorne]

If it were a matter of knowing she was alive and well somewhere, even if it meant never seeing her again, I could deal with that.

I don't feel particularly brave. I feel more lost than ever.

[Private to Ianto]

The only people who feel brave are the ones who weren't afraid in the first place.

[Private to Lorne]
That's oddly comforting, particularly coming from a military man.

[Private to Ianto]

Funny, that's pretty much what I thought when my dad said it to me.

[Private to Lorne]
Your father is a wise man.

[Private to Ianto]

Yeah, he was.

[Private to Lorne]
Has he passed? I'm sorry. I didn't realize.

[Private to Ianto]

Yeah, he died just before I started at the Academy. It's been a while. I'm only just now realizing that he was a pretty good guy.

[Private to Lorne]
I think that's surprisingly common, not realizing what good men our fathers were until we're men ourselves.

[Private to Ianto]

I suspect that's true. I wish it hadn't taken me so long, though.

[Private to Lorne]
I think that's human nature, not seeing something until it's gone.

I too have experienced such a loss. It's been years and I have yet to fully put it behind me. I don't think I ever will. And, on top of his loss, I feel responsible for that fact that he is no longer here with me. All I can say is that the better days eventually do outweigh the worse ones, and that, even though it might not seem like it, there is hope for healing- for a second chance. I never would have thought it possible until just recently, and believe me, if I can hope again, anyone can.

Some days I have more hope for a second chance than others.

[Private to Sanzo]
Sometimes I think I don't deserve one, but that's where it gets messy and complicated again. There are times the guilt over wanting to move on outweighs the desire to do the actual moving.

I hate this.

[Private to Ianto ]

I understand that as well. There have been so many times when I've prevented myself from making any progress in this arena, not feeling as if I deserve to move beyond the past and find happiness and peace. And perhaps, if the person were anyone but Hakkai, I wouldn't be able to. But, he's patiently stood by me for years, helping me confront my personal demons while facing equally as dark and deadly ones of his own. He never pushed me for anything, never told me to get over it... even when I was at my most ugly he supported me with his sense of humor, kind smile and gently berating words. But, I think the thing that convinced me the most that it was time to force myself forward was when I so nearly lost him just recently. By trying to avoid repeating the pain of my past, I magnified it tenfold. He's too dear to me to risk losing a second time by remaining complacent, not to mention the fact that I don't think I could endure that pain again.

[Private to Sanzo]
With Jack it's . . . well, let me put it like this. He was there when Lisa died. And the things we said to each other that night are still between us, and I don't know how to move past them, not really.

Jack and I have always been attracted to each other--though I often think Jack is to attracted to anything with a pulse, so I try not to put too much stock in it on a personal level--and I sometimes think if we'd just slept together in the beginning there wouldn't be so much baggage now, the employer/employee issues and the friendship issues--because I do like him, and I think I would even if I weren't attracted to him--and all the everything else.

Like I said. Messy. I'm probably overanalysing it but I can't help myself.

[Private to Ianto]

I also lost my wife. The circumstances surrounding it...ah, where to begin with that? It's a long, messy story, and if you want to know the details, tell me and I'll fill you in if you think it may help you. The short story is she was taken from me, I went after her, and when I finally reached her, she thanked me by taking her own life in front of me while I watched, unable to stop her.

Believe me, my friend, I do understand about good days and bad days. When it happened, I wanted to die. I wanted to find someone who would pity me and put me out of my misery, because I just felt so...alone and empty. Even now, sometimes I do feel that way. It's quite surreal.

I often wonder if I've had more bad days than good ones, and I also find it amazing that I've managed to not only survive for as long as I have, but that I've even learned to want to go on living. It's been almost four years for me, now. Some days, I don't think of her at all, and then other days, it's like she's there, and it hurts all over again, and it's just crushing.

Grief is a terrible, powerful emotion. It has such a hold over us, and seems to taunt us, letting us think we've finally escaped it only to come up and, as you say, blindside you.

You will find your own coping strategies. Some will work, some won't. Sometimes, you'll go for months and be fine, and then it will hit you. I wish you all the best in battling your demons. I know that I haven't been entirely successful in coping with mine.

If I can offer you one piece of advice (feel free to take it or leave it), don't let your guilt consume you. For the longest time, I thought I was going to drown in the weight of mine, until I realized what I was feeling guilty for. I felt guilty for the fact that I was alive... If you can let go to just that, you'll find that you feel a bit better.

Sorry for rambling...

[Private to Hakkai]
I would like to hear it, if you want to tell the story.

Lisa . . . I lost her before I lost her for good, if that makes sense. I held on longer than I should have--I believed I could makes things better, make it right again, and in the end I couldn't and she died.

I've tried reading about grief, I've tried burying myself in work, and it still gnaws at me every day. I feel guilty for being alive, and I feel guilty about not having been able to do more to help her, and I feel guilty about wanting to move on. And the only thing that I believe will really help me makes me feel guiltiest of all.

[Private to Ianto]

Alright…this is the story of my Kanan.

We hadn't been married for very long, and I'd just gotten a job teaching in a small village. I was happy. My students were wonderful, I was with the woman I loved… I thought things were perfect. I shouldn't have tempted fate like that.

I came home one fall evening, not suspecting at all that anything was wrong. However, when I entered our home, it looked as though it had been ransacked. And, more importantly, Kanan was missing.

After pressing the others in town for any information at all, I came to find out that a demon named Hyakugan Mao, a fiend reputed to have an eye for attractive women, had spotted her. His 'thing' was to play with these women until he got bored, and then he would eat them. Anyway, he had threatened to destroy the village and kill everyone in it if Kanan wasn't given to him. Of course, the townspeople thinking about the greater good gave her to him without question. (I have come to understand their motivations for that now, and have even moved passed my own anger to forgive them for what they did, but needless to say, at the time, I was furious.) No one would come with me to attempt a rescue, and not just for the fact that it was likely a suicide mission. They believed that Hyakugan Mao had upheld his end of the bargain, and they didn't want to incur his wrath by disobeying him.

So, I went alone to his castle to rescue her. The journey took a few weeks, and along the way, so caught up in my own rage and desire for revenge, I killed any member of his clan that I came across. Brutally, and without remorse. But, as the blood stained my hands and my soul grew darker with the weight of my actions, I wasn't sated. I wanted to kill the monster who had taken her, and I wanted to see my beloved again. Once in his courtyard, no one was spared from my blade – man, woman or child. I killed every last one of them. I found her in the basement of the castle, in a cell. I was working on freeing her when she grabbed my dagger…

Mao had raped her, and she said she was pregnant with his child. As she smiled at me, she told me that she couldn't raise the child of such a monster and, despite my pleading, imploring her that we could find a way to make things alright again, she still took her life. Stabbed herself in the abdomen to kill her unborn child, and then slit her throat. Sometimes, I think I can still feel the heat of her blood. As I watched her die, the very last member of Mao's clan found me, and after mocking me for my loss, he attempted to eviscerate me. But, I managed to kill him, too. Badly injured, I left the castle, thinking I had nothing left to live for, and feeling beyond betrayed by her actions. I couldn't understand how she could do that when she supposedly loved me. Still, after I had convalesced, I returned to the site to retrieve her remains so that I could give her a proper burial, only to find that the castle had been razed, and there was nothing left.

I feel like I lost her twice, and twice, I failed her by not being able to save her. That is more of the guilt that I carry, and believe me, I so understand where you're coming from when you talk about your own guilt. I also want to let her go and move on, live my life, try to find happiness again.

It's very hard to move past that. And do you want to know what makes me feel even worse? I've come to realize that for as much as I loved her, and still do love her, I also hate her with a passion. I hate her for being so selfish to leave me as she did. I hate her for how she manages to still keep hold over my soul. But most of all, I hate her for still being there and reminding me that I should be feeling like shit whenever I have a chance at happiness.

So that is my story, as cynical as it is. I know the circumstances are somewhat different from yours, and yet, there are so many similarities, too. I hope that for both of our sakes that soon, we are able to let go of all that guilt we carry. It would be nice to be able to live and love for ourselves again, wouldn't it?

[Private to Hekkai]
Thank you for trusting me with this. I'm so sorry about it all: what a horrible thing to happen to you and to your wife.

I think the anger you mention is part of grief as well: anger at the deceased for dying, no matter how it actually happened. I'm not a religious person: I don't have hope of a heavenly reunion after death, and I suspect that if I did it would be easier to find peace. But as it is I miss her. I miss what we had. I miss my girl, my friend, my sweetheart, and I miss having someone I feel utterly at home with.

And at the same time I get angry, because I miss her, and because of things she did and things I did for her, and sometimes I wish I hadn't done anything so it never would have come to the point it did, even if it had meant losing her sooner. And I get angry at myself for believing that I loved her enough to work miracles.

I think I've lost my faith in love. I don't want to love someone again. I just want to feel something other than this pain.

[Private to Ianto]

Hm...I completely identify with what you're saying. The anger, the grief, the fact that with them gone, you just feel so utterly empty inside.

I hope that your faith in love isn't lost completely, merely misplaced for the time being while you work through things. It sounds like you need to do one of the most difficult things imaginable, and that is to forgive yourself - something I continually struggle with.

Perhaps our paths aren't that different; I'm just a pace or two ahead of you. I thought I could just exist without those hurtful emotions, but in doing so, I haven't been living. I think it's about time I started to live once more. It's frightening, to leave the comfort of this self-imposed spiritual prison I've dumped myself into, and it's just as likely I'll fail as I will succeed; however, as a wise Welshman told me once, love is always a risk...

I hope that you find yourself one day able to take such a risk of your own...

[Private to Hekkai]
Thank you.

There are risks and risks, and right now all I really want is to just get through the grief. If I do something stupid at least it's my mistake to make, and if it ends up being worth the risk . . . well, I'll never know until I've taken that step.

Of course, that hasn't stopped me from backing down every time it gets too close to happening. I'm a lot more brave in words than I am in action.

[Private to Ianto]

I don't know why I'm making this a private comment given that your entry was public, but, anyway: I admire your honesty, and your bravery, and I'm sorry for your loss.

I realize that there isn't anything anyone can say to make it at all better, but if ever you want to talk... Well, you know the drill, I'm sure. If you don't mind my asking, how long has it been since her death?

[Private to Near]
Thank you.

She died a few months ago. She was ill for a long time before that.

[Private to Ianto]

A few months is nothing. Frankly, I'm amazed that it hasn't been longer-- from your general demeanor and ability to deal with things, I would never have known. Don't try to rush the grieving process or expect too much of yourself, or be disappointed or angry with yourself when it swells again. It hasn't been very long, and it's perfectly natural to still be experiencing the sort of thing you're talking about here.

It will get better. Of course it will.

But maybe not soon, and you'll probably always still miss her.

I don't think that's a bad thing. It means she touched your life, and was someone who meant something to you. I won't pretend to know what you're going through, but I have experienced loss, of a kind, and... Even though it hurts, that's a good thing, because it means we were lucky enough to have someone in our lives that meant something to us, even if we were unlucky enough to lose them... Though maybe it's different when it's a partner. I don't know.

In any case, I'm sorry. But I really do think you're holding up incredibly well, and you when you have days like these, you should just let yourself feel them. it's horrible, but natural, and as time goes on, the spaces between them will grow and you will have a life again, if you want one. You're a good person, so you deserve it, and you're strong, so you can make it happen.

[Private to Near]
I'm very good at hiding things. Years of practice.

To be honest I feel like a fucking hypocrite. I've made no secret here about my feelings for Jack and at the same time I miss Lisa so much it's eating me up. I don't know what to do about either of them.

[Private to Ianto]

Well, so long as you're not trying to hide them from yourself, that's perfectly fine. In any case, the fact that you can do so while you're grieving is evidence of your ability to function, and it's very impressive.

There's nothing hypocritical in that. Missing one person does not mean that you can't have feelings for another. Some people would even say that it's possible to love two people at the same time, even when both of them are around, and it would of course be possible when one is absent. Your feelings for them both are different, from what I know of them, and not at all mutually exclusive, especially as you can't be with Lisa any more. There's no need to beat yourself up over that at all.

As to what to do with them... Your grief will always be with you, but there's nothing that can be done about it except to feel it, try to see the good in what it means, and wait for it to lessen with time. As for Jack... What do you want to do...?

[Private to Near]
What do I want with Jack? God, I can't even answer that question. I have his trust, as much as he trusts anyone, and he looks after me and I look after him, and he makes me laugh and I make him happy, and the only thing that's missing from this being a love affair is the love. (And the sex.)

[Private to Ianto]

That sounds like a good basis for an involvement to me. Is the love missing on both sides, do you think...?

As to the sex... Under normal circumstances, I'd tell you to stay away, but it sounds to me like you're already having those sorts of feelings for him, so I don't think it would make matters any worse, or you more attached to him. Do you want to be involved with him on that level?

[Private to Near]
I don't assume to know anything about what Jack feels. As T. once said, he'll shag anyone as long as they're gorgeous enough, and I think that's the main thing that's holding me back. I've no interest in being just another toy and I'm not convinced he's interested in anything else.

I know it's ridiculous of me, but sometimes, when it's dark and I'm alone and hurting, I think, If Jack were here he'd make it better. And it's absurd.

God. Writing it out like that makes me feel so pathetic.

[Private to Ianto]

Emotions make us all pathetic. I wouldn't worry about it. It's worth it so long as they make you happy, though. I think, anyway.

I wasn't asking what he felt so much as what you felt. Is he just a friend that you care for and are attracted to, or is it something more? As to just being another toy... Have you ever seen him be involved with a friend or work colleague before? It might be different in that case. He does very clearly have an attachment to you already, so maybe he would be less hesitant to deepen that than he would be to allow himself form an attachment to someone new in the first place...

Does being with him help you, when you're unhappy? Or have you never been in that situation with him, and it's just a feeling that you have? Do you think he would want to do that for you?

...Maybe things between the two of you wouldn't have to be the great grand romance of you life. Maybe you just need someone to be affectionate with as you're still grieving, and that might be enough for him if he's not interested in anything long-term. It might be worth considering, if you don't think his... inability to get involved in something... more wouldn't end up hurting you worse than you are now.

[Private to Near]
I see: I thought you were asking if I think he loves me. He is a friend and I do care for him, but I also like to think I see him clearly, flaws and all. I suppose I've made it something of a hobby, watching Jack.

I've never seen him in a romantic relationship. He tells stories sometimes but they're mostly about sex that he's had.

He prefers to distract me than to talk about things, which I don't mind.

Maybe you're right: maybe I do just need someone to be gentle with me for a while. I don't know what the right thing is at all.

[Private to Ianto]

Oh, no; I think if you knew the answer to that question you'd either have put the idea out of your head entirely, or you'd have better things to do than sit here and talk to me... You can love someone even when you see their flaws, you know. I didn't really used to think that was true, but it is. There's a difference in love and blind love, I think, so you can still be in love with someone and still see their... less fine points. I can imagine you watch him a lot-- from the limted about that I've seen, he's a very interesting person. Although I get the feeling there's a great deal more to him than meets the eye. Any eye, at that.

I can well believe it. I only asked because I wondered if he might behave differently if it were someone he was involved with already (in a non-romantic sense) because he couldn't really get away from them afterwards, so he'd probably have to alter his behaviour, at least a little. Maybe he deliberately avoids 'office romances', then...?

But he has been there for you when you're hurt? It doesn't matter what he does or how he does it so long as he's seen you at your weakest and tried to make it better. It means he does care for you, at least.

It's interesting that you used the word gentle. I may be very wrong, but Jack doesn't particularly strike me as the type to be... emotionally gentle. As to what's right... Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but sod what's right. You need to work out what you want. I don't think you could hurt Jack by being with him unless he developed feelings for you and you were to turn him away-- but I don't think you'd do that. Therefore, the only person whose feelings you need to consider is yourself. Forget about what's right for a little while and focus on working out what it is that you want, and once you know that, it's a much better place to start out from.

Comment filtering:

[Private to Near]
I don't love Jack, though. I like him. I want him. But that's not love and I doubt it ever will be. He has too many secrets for there to be that much trust.

As long as I've been here--which, I admit, has only been 18 months or so--he hasn't dated anyone, period. Which is not to say I know what he does after we've all left for the night. I have my assumptions, but it's not the kind of thing I ask for more details about.

If I could work out what I want . . . no, I know what I want. I just don't know how to get it.

[internet cafe] fy calon i yn anafen

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